Sichuanese aka 四川话
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kmmorr -
Quote:
Last quick note: I think it is weird that you two think it is the best sounding dialect, it is a
very ruff, gruff, a 刺耳 dialect.
That's exactly why I like it . . .
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Xiao Kui -
I don't like the way Sichuanhua sounds, but think it's gorgeous compared to Kunminghua.
But I'm weird, because I think Cantonese sounds beautiful!
BTW, love the title of your blog, kmmorr - that's one of my favorite idioms, and I think I almost
barked at the blue skies the summer I went home after my first year in CD.
kmmorr -
Xiao Kui--thanks, you're the first person who's mentioned that. It's never good for a blog about
China to not have "China" in it's title, but, oh well, like you I just really like that chengyu,
and I think it's a really fitting way to describe any foreigner's reactions to China.
realmayo -
Kmmorr: I read the Sichuanhua stuff on your website a few months ago, I thought it was fantastic,
not least because I couldn't find anything like it anywhere else. Glad to hear an update is in the
works (no pressure!).
dynaemu: I'd agree with everyone else, learn the standard language. but if you are somewhere where
they speak a dialect, it's always fun to learn at least a bit of that too -- partly because it
helps you work out if a phrase or a word you hear on the street is standard chinese or a variation.
what I find funny is that these days you wouldn't expect someone "educated" to say they were proud
about speaking "high quality" local language -- good putonghua is of course a primary indicator of
good education etc. and people can seem a bit snobbish about it.
but before putonghua was introduced, people spoke their local languages and I believe that those
who had good educations in particular would like to think they could speak it "better" than others.
I guess it's quite common to get teachers telling you off if local dialect inadvertently creeps
into your putonghua, so it's a shock if a professor, say, in his 70s or 80s tells you how high
quality (ie educated) his whavever-hua is.
kmmorr -
realmayo--I'm glad you found it useful--it was a labor of love, and I was pretty pessimistic about
the likelihood that people would find the site and/or find the primer to be useful. Actually, I'll
probably do some updates next week. I finished writing about four other sections of the primer
over four months ago, but I ended up spending so much time on the primer, that I forgot entirely
about my mandarin, which then regressed into a state of sucking. As people have observed, it's
better to work on Mandarin first, and indeed since then this is all I've been doing.
Now that I'm spending time with a lot more locals (read: my girlfriend's family) I'm finding I
really need to improve my sichuanhua, and so this will probably be enough to motivate me to finish
the primer
LaVandez -
Muyongshi when were there textbooks written in Sichuanhua? I studied in Chengdu but I never saw
any Sichuanhua textbooks which gets at your point but have you seen any? I would say that mostly
you can get by on Mandarin but you really wont be endeared unless you can understand some
Sichuanhua but for that you really need to be on the 5 to 10 year plan after you've first gotten
your putonghua down. However if you are in Chengdu you'll probably get okay with Sichuanhua but
not like the locals who do use it alot I think it's fun to hear it too by the way it used to be
off putting but it becomes pretty cool after a while.
muyongshi -
The only thing that I have ever come across was more of a academic/linguistic thing on 四川话
and not a learning tool and that was pointed out to me by Roddy at one point.... Let me see if I
can go find that....
Here
As you notice that thread was started by me in one of my early attempts at getting very serious in
my learning. My teacher has at different times given me some of foundation work in 四川话 and
that coupled with my time here and always picking up new words and phrases leaves me at a decent
place even before that attempt above. Every attempt that I have tried to do to learn more in a
very concentrated and focused effort has been met with a lack of a road in which to accomplish my
goals even though I am surrounded by native speakers. I ask my friends to talk to me more using
sichuanhua but when it comes down to it as we have no problems in communication in mandarin or
even in using 椒盐普通话 we just wind up using that as they don't want to have to be
explaining everything for the purpose of learning. Yes I would understand a high percentage of
what they said but that is not enough to rely "learn" as there is no ability to analyze large
amounts of data and continue with the learning process.
Needless to say, I learn at this point through vicarious learning which is way more than
sufficient! In regards to how you put it "endearded" it's not necessary. Learn madarin, they will
mainly understand you except for a few random ones and you will pick the basics up quickly but you
are right that if you want to learn both it is a 5-10 year investment but it's not about having
mandarin fully down first. You can pick up a lot at the same time especially as the two are both
part of the northern dialectal groups.
hunxueer -
you can find a couple sichuanhua listening tests on youtube, while we're on the topic. sichuan
university also offers an elective course in sichuanhua, but it's more of an academic study
conducted in mandarin than it is teaching students how to speak it.
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